Writing Rules and Self-editing

[Rita Gerlach]

I'm throwing out some questions here.

1. Writing Rules:

Do you staunchly adhere to them?
Are you paranoid about using 'ly' or 'ing' words, never use them, or use them sparingly?
Do you believe the writing rule gurus that say never use 'was', or words ending with 'ly' or 'ing'.
Or, is what matters a well-written good story and you don't sweat the 'rules'?
Why is it that bestselling authors break the rules? Could it be that following the rules to the tee are not what makes a bestseller?

2. Self-Editing

Do you self-edit your manuscript before submitting it?
Or, do you send it to an editing service?
What is the most you've paid to have someone edit your book?
Do you edit to the best of your ability, and then send your manuscript out?
For the published, did your editor help with substantial editing?

Any advice on self-editing post it here for the benefit of others.

I recommend the book 'Your Novel Proposal' by Blyth Camenson.
For writing and self-editing --- a good college textbook on writing.

[Delia DeLeest]

I don't get too worked up about following the rules. For my rough draft I just blaze through it without even reading what I've written. Once that's done, I go back for tweaking, but don't get to anal about checking for -ly words. I seem to naturally avoid them. I do a lot of self-editing, mostly doing what I call a "that elimination" doing a search for the words "that" and "just" which I horribly overuse and eliminate about 50 of them. Once I sold my first book and received the rewrites and corrections from my editor, I better learned what to look for and when I sent in my 2nd ms, managed to make it very clean because I knew what she was wanting.

[Judy Ridgley]

1. Writing Rules: So that is what I'm doing wrong?????

Do you staunchly adhere to them? NO. I can't do anything staunchly. Really I can't tho I may try.

Are you paranoid about using 'ly' or 'ing' words, never use them, or use them sparingly? After editing them out and seeing/hearing the powerful difference...I have to say yes on this one. but not NEVER.
Do you believe the writing rule gurus that say never use 'was', or words ending with 'ly' or 'ing'. A contest judge once said I avoided using Was when I shouldn't. I think she was wise. So I have to say, Was is a part of the language tools and should be used on a 'as needed' basis like cayenne pepper.

Or, is what matters a well-written good story and you don't sweat the 'rules'? I don't know if I've master the 'well written good story. I like 'em. I sweat everything. Shower time!

Why is it that bestselling authors break the rules? Because they are best selling authors.

Could it be that following the rules to the tee are not what makes a bestseller? I don't really know...but I'm sure it helps

2. Self-Editing...ugh

Do you self-edit your manuscript before submitting it? Yes over and over and over and then have it edited

Or, do you send it to an editing service? Yes...I hope he can work miracles

What is the most you've paid to have someone edit your book? A lot

Do you edit to the best of your ability, and then send your manuscript out? Yes of course...I embarrass easily. I read to quickly and have gone over the manuscript enough to memorize it (not numbers tho) so I miss far too much. How do you slow down????

For the published, did your editor help with substantial editing? N/A

Any advice on self-editing post it here for the benefit of others. I wish I really knew what worked. But I would guess that listening to your heart is important as knowing the rules.

I hope this helps someone. Rita thanks for asking

[Anne Whitfield]

I've never paid someone to edit my book. A good critique group is just as useful and cheaper.
I self edited my books and use my critique group and then the book goes out.

I think it's good to know the 'writing rules' so you can break them when or as needed. LOL

[Judy Ridgley]

I got to thinking about this and have learned a few things, worthless as they may be, that maybe I could share with everyone about freelance editing.
Okay, at first I tried critique partners/group who were romancers. I was in the idenity phase of my writing and found I was frustrated because I'm not a romancer. I'm a historical fiction writer. Romancers are caught in this world of rules and relationships so critiquing a fiction book is contentious. I then went a cheap route/I thought/ and went to the Universiity and found an assistant English professor/masters student. She did her job with distaste because I'm sure my work wasn't 'dark' real enough. Okay onward, I found a local self pub editor. She was very nice...and she did help me reconsider the beginning of my story. But that was all. Onward...I finally gleaned the attention of an agent who said that the story was good but way too long ( a previous agent said it could be three times longer and so became that to lead to this) I asked if she knew a freelancer and she did. The freelancer had worked for a big pub and was now freelancing, worked by the hour (not cheap) but when she said the manuscript needed a second readthrough and I asked her to wait, I had to reconsider cost...I learned she charged ahead anyway. Now this wasn't professional in my opinion so she became history. AS I did with the agent. ONLY then did I learn that there is a world out there between agents and freelancers. Some agents CAN get kickbacks on referrals. Now I do not know if this was the case here. I also learned there is a professional organization like AAR (can't think of it right now) for freelancers. NOW I have my manuscript with a freelancer recommended by an author who I respect. I have fingers crossed that this works.
What have I learned...Be careful and do your homework as much as you would any agent or publisher. Cheap isn't better. Expensive isn't either. And get a signed letter of agreement BEFORE you release your work to anyone.
I hope this helps someone out there and keeps change in their pockets.

[Stephanie Patterson]

I'm probably the least experienced one here but... :-)

I can't answer for your point 2 as I haven't got to that stage yet but I would think I'd self-edit my work, and join a critique group for feedback. In my experience, critiquing also gives you the opportunity to learn as a writer, becoming more aware of what works and what doesn't. Planning to join one once my writing course is finished next month.

As for point 1: The rules are unbreakable according to my writing course teacher - who has never published a novel! While they are useful and I can see the point of most of them (pov, overuse of adjectives, active/passive voice, showing not telling, etc), some restrict the flow. I have become disillusioned with the course as it doesn't allow me to post my own (edited and re-edited) version without comment if they contain one or two exception to the rules. Even when used sparingly, such as an adjective in a suitable place, he knocks it. Not constructive at all.

The rules are there for guidance, for the writer as for the reader who might get confused or fed up with a poorly written novel. But there are plenty of novels out there (yes, also from best sellers) that don't comply. Some are otherwise well-written, others are not.

I think some best sellers stuff the rules because they can. Their books will sell anyway. I've had a few that I had to put aside after a few pages because I was confused. But then my money would already be in the pub's - and author's - pockets... am I cynical?

Great topic, Rita!

Stephanie

[Judy Ridgley]

Steph, I don't think you're cynical at all. If you are, then I am too. I see 'stuff' all the time and wonder how they got pubbed.... but as you say, they have my money etc. AS for your writing teacher...be aware that you are learning to control your work and your writing. I once had a English teacher in college who demanded we write his style. It was very dictitorial in even the exact form from introduction to conclusion. I fought it but to no avail and gave in...Later, when I couldn't figure out how to approach a paper...guess how I got past that problem. You are gaining something from this prof. Submit and then do it your way...the lesson will reveal itself as you change.
I just can't find a critique partner or group that fits. Not that I'm picky, I don't write Romance and they are all romancers. There is a definite difference between historical and Romance. However, they do catch all the other points one has to learn to control as POV, show don't tell, don't teach to the choir, and so on. Also, they can question you on something andmake you see a better way.
Just don't quit. Keep writing no matter. Ignore the critique's voice. and keep writing
J

[Gwyn Ramsey]

Rita, I"ve always been told that there are three rules in writing, but for the heck of it, no one can remember them. Actually if you know the grammar rules and understand them, I've been told that you can break them IF you know what you are doing. Go figure.

[Gwyn Ramsey]

Self-editing---I belong to a critique group that meets once a month. The emailed chapters (one per person) are Microsoft track checked, copied and then discussed at the round table while we eat lunch. I also have a very dear friend who loves to edit my work and she can be deadly with the number two pencil. I feel very fortunate to have those extra four or five set of eyes scanning my manuscript for punctuation and continuity. After four read throughs performed by myself from beginning to end, it's a great comfort to get additional help.

[William Ramsay]

As far as rules are concerned, they change with time, and they're like etiquette, maybe not sensible, but you have to follow "them" if you don't want to annoy the reader. Victorians happily "remarked" and "averred," but we always have to use "said" in dialog. A writer couldn't repeat words-- until Hemingway -- now increasingly you can't repeat words again. I suggest combining your questions 1 and 2 and using your friendly editor or critiquer as a tester of "rules." If they don't like "ly" or whatever, take it out.

Also, two vague but good old-time rules for text editing:

1. There are no bad sentences, only bad thoughts.

2. If you're afraid a passage stinks -- it does. Take it out!

[Gwyn Ramsey]

A third vague but good rule. . . you can't edit a blank page.